Suddenly I can't send email

Problems with the Windows version of XAMPP, questions, comments, and anything related.

Re: Suddenly I can't send email

Postby creacon » 24. October 2009 17:26

Hi Izzy,

I don't know if it will help but msmtp is not a true sendmail app even though it is supposed to be compatible and the arguments may or may not be responsible here especially the -i switch which according to the msmtp manual is ignored anyway.

Drop the -i to now read

I only just added the -i as a mad stab in the dark. I've not been able to find out what those two paramaters mean, so I just tried that one. Also, I'm not using msmtp (at least I don't think I am), I looked at it and was too confused to even begin to use it. I'm just using plain sendmail.
In the sendmail.ini file change this
from rob@creacontech.com
to your yahoo email account address and password, if you have one, for authentication purposes - you@bizmail.yahoo.com for example and if not then leave it as it is.

Not sure what you're telling me to do here; rob@creacontech.com is my primary Yahoo email address, and creacontec.com is my Yahoo domain name. That bizmail stuff is only their server names (i.e. pop3/smtp.bizmail.yahoo.com).
Your web site was created by Yahoo and also the mail script and I would hope that it works on the Yahoo servers.

My website is on Yahoo Small Business, but I created the pages and the php scripts using Dreamweaver. I simply upload my pages to my Yahoo site at creacontech.com via either FileZilla or Yahoo's File Manager. The pages, forms and emails work OK on the Yahoo site, but not in my local testing environment (i.e. xampp).
The form is being posted to
http://us.1.p12.webhosting.yahoo.com/fo ... rm=&error=

Not to
smtp.bizmail.yahoo.com
as is the form you are trying to send via XAMPP.

Not sure what you're telling me here. The URL where I upload to is http://us.1.p4.webhosting.yahoo.com/filemanager.
Bob, you need to check that your password is correct, but please never ever post it on a forum unless you intend to change it immediately after - I would have thought you would have checked that first before using it in your form and if, as you say, those credentials are the same in Outlook and work, then they should also work in sendmail.

I guess nobody could ever accuse me of being smart. However, FWIW my password isn't in my form, it's in my sendmail.ini file. the rob@creacontech.com and my password are what are in my Outlook account, and they work. also, those are what are in Yahoo, and they work there also. I will, however, take your advice and change it straightaway.
BTW is your password really wrapped in [ ] brackets as this is not normal?

I have no idea how it got that way. I just looked in my original sendmail.ini, and it's that way there. I assumed that when I installed xampp that value was placed there. I can certainly remove them and try to see if that works.
Code: Select all
Another item to check is the host name as often service providers use a different host name for TLS/SSL - I currently have a hosting service that does just that and so does GoDaddy hosting, so it may be worth checking, as this will also give authentication errors if you are trying to connect via TLS when the non TLS server expects plain email.

I have no idea what that would be. In Yahoo Small Business Help there's a link entitled, "Your POP/SMTP Settings". When I follow that link I get the following:
Your POP/SMTP Settings
Incoming mail server (POP3): pop.bizmail.yahoo.com
Use SSL, port: 995
Outgoing mail server (SMTP): smtp.bizmail.yahoo.com
Use SSL, port: 465, use authentication
Account name/user name: rob@creacontech.com
Email address: rob@creacontech.com
Password: Your Business Email password

I guess I can call Yahoo Tech Support and find out if there's a different name.
Just as an idea and you have nothing to lose by trying this in Outlook as you own the domain name creacontech.com and when I get hosting service's email configurations they usually don't tell you can use your own domain name for the mail host - it looks more professional:
E-Mail Host
pop.creacontech.com
smtp.creacontech.com

I'll certainly try that also, and thanks for the input.
***************************************************************************************************************************************************
Hi Weidmann,

Normally this means your user or password is not correct.
from rob@creacontech.com
user rob@creacontech.com
password [xxxxxxxxxxxx]
These are exactly the same values you are using in e.g. Outlook?

Yes they are, except for the brackets around the password. I'm going to take them off and see if that helps.
creacon
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 21. August 2009 19:14

Re: Suddenly I can't send email

Postby creacon » 24. October 2009 17:46

Hi Izzy, Und Guten Tag Herr Weidmann (the total extent of my knowledge of German),

Viola!! I got it working. The whole problem has been those %$*# brackets around my password. I took them out, and now the email works. Whoda thunk it??

Anyway, thanks a gozillian for all the help and head scratchin' that you guys have done to help me. In spite of my ever growing senility, I actually learned a few things through all of this. :lol:

There's still something I don't quite understand, though. I've been sending these emails (for testing) from my Yahoo email, which is using TLS, to my home email adress, which doesn't (at least I don't think it does); the Outlook settings are just standard (i.e. ports 110 & 25, no encryption boxes checked), yet I received the emails clear. How does that decryption happen if my account doesn't indicate to use it?????
creacon
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 21. August 2009 19:14

Re: Suddenly I can't send email

Postby Izzy » 29. October 2009 20:53

Basically there are 2 separate processes involved - sending and receiving.

1. You send the mail using TLS to the mail exchange server, the MX, and it then sits there waiting for collection.

2. You collect the mail using your Outlook which is not using TLS, the MX knows by your request that your client is not using TLS so it sorts out the decryption and sends a plain unencrypted email to you.

3. You collect the mail using your Outlook and TLS, the MX knows by your request that you are using TLS so it sends you an encrypted email, then Outlook decrypts the mail on arrival for your viewing, all this is transparent to the you in both directions.

I hope this crude explanation helps a little in understanding what goes on.

creacon wrote:Also, I'm not using msmtp (at least I don't think I am),
XAMPP 1.7.2 uses msmtp as a replacement for the Fake Sendmail used in earlier versions of XAMPP.
Izzy
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: 25. April 2006 17:06

Re: Suddenly I can't send email

Postby creacon » 02. November 2009 17:19

1. You send the mail using TLS to the mail exchange server, the MX, and it then sits there waiting for collection.

2. You collect the mail using your Outlook which is not using TLS, the MX knows by your request that your client is not using TLS so it sorts out the decryption and sends a plain unencrypted email to you.

3. You collect the mail using your Outlook and TLS, the MX knows by your request that you are using TLS so it sends you an encrypted email, then Outlook decrypts the mail on arrival for your viewing, all this is transparent to the you in both directions.



I think your explanation is very clear, but that brings up another question in my mind, so before it dies of lonliness, let me ask; If Outlook can decrypt it, then what prevents any hacker decrypt it as well? If that's possible, then where's the security?
creacon
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 21. August 2009 19:14

Re: Suddenly I can't send email

Postby Izzy » 03. November 2009 01:05

creacon wrote:If Outlook can decrypt it, then what prevents any hacker decrypt it as well? If that's possible, then where's the security?
TLS. as I mentioned already, stands for Transport Layer Security and the Transport Layer being the operative words - your email is secure during server to server transit and if you allow your hacker to guess or in any other way acquire your email password (like posting it on a forum for example) then of course the hacker will be able to read your email.
http://www.bnymellon.com/security/tlsencryption.pdf
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070821204922AAz9nQY
Internet Search Results for how does TLS email work.


The only way to completely secure your email, even if your email password is hacked, is to use a total encryption package like PGP (Pretty Good Privacy), an Internet search for PGP will provide the answers.

Here is are a few examples from an Internet search:
http://blog.pgp.com/index.php/tag/ssltls/

Web form email encryption:
http://www.tectite.com/ (I use this best of breed FormMail on my production web sites).
Search results for Encrypting web form email

We are now completely off topic for these XAMPP for Windows forums and so future email security issues should be researched using your preferred Internet search facilities.

Good luck.
Izzy
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: 25. April 2006 17:06

Re: Suddenly I can't send email

Postby creacon » 05. November 2009 16:56

Thanks a million for your explanations. That, and some of the links you included (and they're all now in my favorites) really cleared up a lot (expecially the one from LuxSci), and answered most of my questions. Also, thanks for the slap up the side of my head about the password. DUH! I think I finally got it through my thick skull, although I should certainly have known better from my 50 years of programming. I must have had a senior moment (don't get old, it sucks). Fortunately, although I realize it's no excuse, my Yahoo domain is only an R&D site; anything I develop will ultimately be installed elsewhere.

Anyway, thanks again, you've been extremely helpfull, and I think we've pretty well chased this subject up a tree. Maybe we'll talk again at my next problem, although I must say that, thankfully, I've encountered extremely few problems with XAMPP.
creacon
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 21. August 2009 19:14

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