CAn XAMPP run on Microsoft Windows 2003 Web Server Edition

Problems with the Windows version of XAMPP, questions, comments, and anything related.

CAn XAMPP run on Microsoft Windows 2003 Web Server Edition

Postby Snoopy.pa30 » 02. March 2007 19:51

Newbie here.

I need to know if XAMPP can run on the Windows 2003 Web Server Edition.

The Microsoft write up talks about serving web pages, but also says that it will prevent other applications from loading.

Anyone have direct experience with this?

Anyone using this in a PRODUCTION - SECURE environment?

Please post your experience.

Thanks in advance

Snoopy
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Postby JKMickelson » 06. March 2007 09:31

The 2003 Server Edition is really the expensive version that runs IIS, MSSQL, etc.

I am running a secure production XAMPP setup for web apps on Windows XP Professional SP2 and would not even consider running it on a server edition of Windows. XP Pro is nice and lean. With a minimalist configuration, it is stable. I am running 2GB ram and AMD X2 4200 (inexpensive, but very effective).

It is running just as nice (and almost as lean) as a clean linux implementation.
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XAMPP on Win XP vs. on Server

Postby Snoopy.pa30 » 08. March 2007 13:45

JK

Thanks for the response. I was thinking of using the server edition as I have heard that XP has a 10 connection limit.

The Web Server Edition has unlimited Web Connections and a 10 SMB connection limit.

Since this project is for a production Web service, I don't want to have a 10 connection limit.

If you are running more than a personal web system you may want to investigate your connectivity, or let me know how you are having more than 10 concurrent connections with XP.
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Postby JKMickelson » 08. March 2007 21:06

I do not use the server as a file server, but as a XAMPP server only.

While I do not have a definitive answer to the 10 connection limit, let's explore this issue to find out what is actually going on.

As far as I presently understand, the 10 connection limit has to do with machines that can login to WinXP Pro to use MS-Windows services such as the file server, print server, or IIS server.

If you are only using XAMMP, these limitations do not come into play. However, it would matter if you are also using the same PC as a file server or IIS server.

I am not aware of any restriction in WinXP that limits the number of connections to a port. I have understood that to be an issue of software configuration. Within WinXP, it is a matter of changing that configuration.

Increase WinXP IIS to 40 simultaneous connections (I have not tested this)
http://weblogs.asp.net/cazzu/archive/2003/10/10/31476.aspx
Code: Select all
cd c:\inetpub\AdminScripts (or similar)
adsutil set w3svc/MaxConnections 40


40 connections is the hardcoded limit for IIS, but not for XAMMP (Apache).
There is a secondary article for IIS here that overcomes the effective limit of 40 connections:
http://plot-no-13.blogspot.com/2006/08/iis-on-windows-professional-connection.html

Again, this is only a restriction when using MS software on WinXP, not when using third-party applications like XAMPP (and specifically, Apache).

This 10 connections to network shares limit was introduced with NT4 workstation (SP3), and exists in W2K workstation, and WinXP home/pro/mc. It only applies to authenticated windows services, such as file and print sharing.


There still remains, in WinXP, the TCPIP hardcoded limit of only 10 new connections per second or 600 new connections per minute. This is plenty for most small business solutions.


To address the original question "Can XAMPP run on the Windows 2003 Web Server Edition?" The answer appears to be "yes" with some requirements. (Since no one with actual Win2003 Production-Secure experience has responded yet, I researched the issue.)

It appears that many of the complaints of running XAMMP on Win2003 stem fom running IIS at the same time or trying to replace Apache with IIS. If you are willing and able to turn off IIS on the Web Server Edition, then I believe you should run just fine.

I have not found the connections per second for Win2003, but third party tests show real world performance. http://www.networkworld.com/reviews/2003/0421rev.html

In short Connections per second:
Code: Select all
O/S     four cpu    single cpu
2003    1827        762
W2K     385         142
WinXP   10          10



Snoopy.pa30, as you become an experienced XAMPP / Win2003 integrator, please reply to this thread to let us know how it is done and what pitfalls to avoid.

Question: After paying for Win2003 Web Server Edition, why XAMMP? It could be a good solution, but what prompted the need?
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Postby Wiedmann » 08. March 2007 21:30

There still remains, in WinXP, the TCPIP hardcoded limit of only 10 new connections per second or 600 new connections per minute.

That's only a limit for halfopen outbound TCP connection attempts. Not for incomming connections.

BTW:
Question: After paying for Win2003 Web Server Edition, why XAMMP? It could be a good solution, but what prompted the need?

That's really a good question... ;-)
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XAMPP on Web Server Edition 2003

Postby Snoopy.pa30 » 08. March 2007 22:16

JK and Wiedman,

Thanks for your responses.

Continued investigation has led me to the following:

MySQL prohibited from Web Server Edition - see links below
http://groups.google.ca/group/microsoft ... 3e1233aa0a

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2 ... w/web.mspx

I do not know if it is prevented, but it is prohibited.


I need to do more investigation to find out if XAMPP inbound connections count toward the 10 SMB limit, and to understand the TCPIP connection inplications.


As to why XAMPP on Windows 2003 Web Server - the administration of the system is going to be done by the customer, and they are not "Linux" comfortable, so they want to know if able to be supported on Windows.


Looks like I need to do some set up and testing to get more complete answers.
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Re: XAMPP on Web Server Edition 2003

Postby kevinkorb » 08. March 2007 23:09

Snoopy.pa30 wrote:JK and Wiedman,


http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2 ... w/web.mspx

I do not know if it is prevented, but it is prohibited.


According to that they're talking about MSSql not MySQL..

Organizations cannot use Windows Server 2003 Web Edition, to deploy Microsoft SQL Server, other than SQL Server 2005 Express Edition.
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Postby Snoopy.pa30 » 08. March 2007 23:24

Kevin,

Reading carefully the line that says

"Installations of non-Web serving applications are prohibited. "

I think they are just using MSSQL as an example.

The Google Groups link also had responses from people saying mySQL was not allowed.

Again, it is "prohibited" by the EULA. I don't know if it is prevented.

Sort of like you are "prohibited" from driving faster than the posted speed limit. What happens if you do exceed the posted limit???

So if anyone has tried it, let us know.

What happens if MS finds out about people using MySQL on Web Server Edition???

Who knows.

Use at your own risk... but let us know if it works.

Snoopy
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Postby JKMickelson » 09. March 2007 06:24

Snoopy,

I read the web page.
Windows Server 2003 Web Edition, can be used solely to deploy Web pages, Web sites, Web applications, and Web services.

XAMMP in its entirety is a full suite of web services. Web Applications use databases; databases are a part of Web Services, Web Applications, Web Sites, and Web Pages.

Just consider installing Mambo, Joomla, or Drupal (etc) on Win2003 to serve Web Pages on your Web Site for your Web Application with Web Services.

You will need MySQL to do any of it. You are definitely within the defined usage limits described on the page. However, the restrictions refer to the use of certain MS products.

Concerning TCP connections, Wiedmann said:
That's only a limit for halfopen outbound TCP connection attempts. Not for incomming connections.

I was aware of this restriction possibly affecting only outbound connections only, but I could not find any reliable info. I'm glad for the clarification.

So taking this into account, WinXP should perform better than W2K but less than Win2003. WinXP Pro sounds like the straight-forward winner. Of course, you'll need to test. I went with XP so that it would be easier for my customer to have other support when I was not available (i.e. on vacation to Fiji or Hawaii).

WinXP Pro OEM can be found for $140 easily. I do not recommend the 64 bit edition for straight-forward production use because of drivers and other compatibility issues I have found.

However, Win64 runs my 5 monitor, 3GB ram development box with 3 VMs and 15 plus applications all open just fine. I've been very happy with it.
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Web Server Edition End User Licence Agreement EULA and XAMPP

Postby Snoopy.pa30 » 09. March 2007 17:56

Guys,

I would love it if MySQL is allowed and authorized to run on Windows 2003 Web Server Edition.

Microsoft's explanation seems to be that the SQL Database Service has to run on another server, but can be linked to Web Server Edition. So I imaging that they consider MySQL and MSSQL equivalent Database Services, not Web Pages or Web Services.


I agree that any decent web application NEEDS a Database Service.

But how will Microsoft read the EULA?

That is why I started this thread.

Has anyone DONE this???

Please let us know.
Snoopy

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Postby JKMickelson » 09. March 2007 21:35

Legally running MySQL on Win2003 Server Web Edition is a completely
different question from the technical question. No one outside of Microsoft
can answer that decisively for you. Their EULAs can be vague enough at
times to warrant proper concern.

It does not matter if others have managed to get this to work. Your
question remains a legal one, and it needs to be posed in a Microsoft
venue (forum, email, etc).

The other place I thought to address this question is at the MySQL site and
forums. While I thought there may be far more interested parties at their
web site who want (or need) to know the answer to this question, I could
only find the following information.

From mysql.com: Installing MySQL on Windows
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/windows-installation.html
To run MySQL on Windows, you need the following:
A 32-bit Windows operating system such as 9x, Me, NT, 2000, XP, or Windows Server 2003.

A Windows NT-based operating system (NT, 2000, XP, 2003) permits you to run the MySQL server as a service.
The use of a Windows NT-based operating system is strongly recommended.
See Section 2.3.11, “Starting MySQL as a Windows Service”.


On the technical-side, I found this post where Istvan Scherf replied to his
own question. He is the only one I found who is running MySQL on the
Web Edition. You might ask him.
http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?11,131 ... msg-131086

My search of Google and MySQL.com and MySQL forums did not turn up
any actual discussion of MySQL and the "Web Edition."
http://search.microsoft.com yielded no results either.

Opinion:
My research of the the Web Edition itself shows that it meant for poor,
individual developers and not for actual business use. It is severely
crippled and serves more as a technology preview for those who cannot
afford the other editions. I believe it is meant to keep such developers
from exploring Linux. At best, the Web Edition might serve smaller SMBs.
But I think SMBs are better served with WinXP Pro, or even W2K, where
there is great familiarity, flexibility, and support. ... and no bizarre EULA
restrictions.

Snoopy, I know you've got a job to complete, and I hope you find a good
solution to your situation.

Best Wishes,
JK
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